What's the diff

[haase]

Hey.  I downloaded the latest Mozilla (something about better CSS support, yeah yeah), but this thing looks like someone took Nextscape communicator, called it Mozilla, and didn't even bother to change the graphics or anything.

[Mephisto_kur]

You have it backwards.  Netscape is based on Mozilla.  The current version of Netscape is (I think, they may have updated) using version 1.0.1 of Mozilla.  Both use the "Gecko" browser engine.  The difference is that Netscape is slower and more bloated, and much slower on updates.  Also, Mozilla is not owned by AOL, like Netscape.

[KillJoy]

Use Phoenix.  It's Mozilla without the damn email client or the HTML writer or various other crap.  Phoenix is JUST a Mozilla based BROWSER, not a browser plus the kitchen sink.

If you think the Mozilla default skin is ugly (I agree), it's hella skinnable.  There are tons available.  My favs are Pinball and Orbit (both can have tiny buttons and bars).  There's an IE skin if you want...

http://themes.mozdev.org/

[haase]

Oh...   Things are starting to piece together now.  I know (well, I read) that Netscrape 7.0 had good CSS support, but I just have some very strange, very tainted aversion to it.

Damnit.  It's going to be hard to break some habits.  Like browsing through folders in Windows Explorer and just typeing a URL up top.

[KillJoy]

Mozilla can browse your hard drive, too.
Try typing c: in the address bar.
It will preface each file system URL with file:///.  Your C: drive will be file:///c:/

...I'm not implying that you'll want to use Mozilla for day to day file browsing...

I used IE for lots of stuff, and Phoenix for some for a while.  Then, I got hooked on tabbed browsing and it totally changed the way I browse.  I can't use IE as effectively because of its lack of tabs.  (Though there are a couple sites that force me to use IE...like TechNet for one...surprise...).  I liked mouse gestures for a while, but Opera's ads bugged me, and they (gestures) don't work as well in Mozilla, so I broke myself from that habit.  I'll never go back to tabless, though.  NEVER!

[Mephisto_kur]

Tabs are definately the future of the world.  I can't go back to IE because of tabs, as well.  I also like seeing webpages the way they were meant to be seen.

[haase]

That's so funny.  I saw tabs for the first time today, and I just stared at the screen for a full minute thinking...  wow...  that's nice.  I mean, you hear someone talking about tabbed browsing and you're like "Yeah, I guess that could be useful..."  The you see it and it's instantly like...  damn, how could I live without that.

But right now I'm having some Linux issues, so I'm off to start a new thread.

[haase]

What version of Mozilla are you running.  At first I was thinking that a lot of websites actually weren't coded correctly, and Moz was showing me all the errors, but I've been getting more than a little frustrated of late and I'm wondering if the latest version isn't a bit buggy.

[Mephisto_kur]

I use Phoenix.  I only use Mozzy for my email.
You *are* seeing incorrectly coded sites.  If you view source on them, you will see how bad they are.  Half the web is made with that piece of shit Frontpage.  Frantpage is notorious for producing code that only looks good on IE.  It utilizes some of the inherent bugs in IE's code parser to produce visual effects that would ordinarily be coded into the site's stylesheet.  For instance, have you ever seen a line of non-breaking spaces?  Like 5 "&nbsp" tags in a row?  IE doesn't always parse a noWrap command correctly, so MS decided to have Frontpage use those lines of non-breaking spaces to get around that.  Unfortunately, it can blow up a table in any compliant browser that hits it.  In fact, I produced a mod of the "Add More Smilies" that fixed this exact problem so the vB style smilie table looked right in any browser.  Big P actually incorporated my changes in the later versions.  Other things that are directly related to FP and IE are nested table syndrome, lack of png transparency support, lack of alhpha blending support and other things.  The reason the web uses the copyrighted GIF format for everything is because IE has such poor png support (png is an opensource format like jpg).  Many have pointed at some old deals that MS made with AOL (the owner of the GIF format) a long time ago.

Mozzy has been more stable than IE since before version 1.0.  You are seeing the disturbing trend of laziness that MS and IE have brought upon the web.  Personally, I like the idea of relaxing the compliance a little to allow for typoes, and basic mistakes.  But MS takes it too far, allowing not just typo level mistakes, but full blown coding errors.

[haase]

I can't seem to get background-image to work with Moz or Pheonix (I know, this sounds mysteriously like another thread on another board, right).  Of course, it works perfectly in IE 5.5 and IE 6.0, but I can't see what I'm doing wrong with Moz

[Mephisto_kur]

Post the code.

[haase]

LOL...  It's really messy.  Totally experimental code.  And of course, you can see it...  it's the white chevron skin at my site.

Code: [Select]

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html>
<head>
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />
  <meta content="<yabb title>" name="description" />
  <meta content="PHP, MySQL, bulletin, board, free, open, source, yabb, yet, another, SE" name="keywords" />
  <meta content="Dev-PHP 1.5.0" name="generator" />
  <title><yabb title></title>
  <style type="text/css">
  a:link { color: #005177; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; }
  a:visited { color: #005177; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; }
  a:hover  { color: #cc3333; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; }
  .Upgrade { display: none; font-weight: bold; }
  .nav { color: #000000; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; }
  .nav:link { color: #000000; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; }
  .nav:visited { color: #000000; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; }
  .nav:hover { font-weight: bold;  color: #cc3333;  background-color: transparent;  text-decoration: underline; }
  body { margin:5px 0px; padding:0px; font-size: 12px; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background:#ffffff}
  table { empty-cells: show; }
  td { font-size: 12px; color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; }
  p { line-height:1.8; margin:10px 0px; }  
  input { font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: verdana,arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #afc6db; }
  textarea { font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: verdana,arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #afc6db; }
  select { font-size: 7pt; color: #000000; font-family: verdana,arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #afc6db; }
  #Container { width:750px; margin-top:122px; text-align:left; padding:15px; border: 1px solid #ccc; background-color:#eee; color: #333; }
  #Main { width:708px; float: left; margin-right: 10px; margin-left: 10px; text-align:center; padding:0px; border: 1px solid #ccc; background-color:#fff; color: #333; }
  #Container>#Main {margin-left: 20px;}
  #Top { text-align:left; padding:0px; border-bottom: position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; height: 108px; color: #333; background-image: url(skins/white chevron/YaBBImages/banner_bg.gif); }
  h1 { text-align:right; position:absolute; right:25px; top:25px; padding:0px; border: 0px; font-size: 10px; color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; }
  #Topmenu { width:100%; text-align:center; position:absolute; top:112px; padding:5px 10px; border-top:1px dashed #ccc; border-bottom: 0px; background-color:#eee; font:10px verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color:#333; text-transform: uppercase; }
  #Content { width: 526px; float: left; text-align:left; margin:0px; padding:10px; border-right: 1px solid #ccc; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; color: #333; background-color:#fff; }
  #Sidebar { width: 140px; float: left; font:12px/1.5 trebuchet ms, verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color:#666; text-align:left; padding:10px; background-color:#fff; }
  #Bottommenu { text-align:center; padding:10px 5px; border-top:0px; border-bottom:1px dashed #ccc; background-color:#eee; font:10px verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color:#333; text-transform: uppercase; }
  #Bottom { text-align:center; padding:10px; border-top: 0px; background-color:#ddd; font:10px verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color:#333; text-transform: uppercase; }
  .windowbg { font-size: 12px; color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #afc6db; }
  .windowbg2 { font-size: 12px; color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #f8f8f8; }
  .windowbg3 { font-size: 12px; color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #6394bd; }
  hr { color: #6394bd; background-color: transparent; }
  .titlebg { color: #ffffff; background-color: #6e94b7; }
  .text1 { font-weight: bold; font-size: 12px; color: #ffffff; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent; }
  .catbg { font-weight: bold; font-size: 13px; background-image: url(YaBBImages/catbg.jpg); color: #000000; }
  .bordercolor { font-size: 12px; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #6394bd; }
  .quote { font-size: 10px; color: #000000; font-family: arial, verdana, helvetica, serif; background-color: #dee7ef; }
  .code { font-size: 10px; color: #000000; font-family: courier new, helvetica, times new roman, serif; background-color: #cccccc; }
  .help { cursor: help; background-color: transparent; }
  .meaction { color: red; background-color: transparent; }
  .editor { width : 100%; }
  .smtxt { color: #000000, font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: transparent; font-size: x-small;}
  .blocktitle { color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #afc6db; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 0px 1px; border-color: #6394bd;}
  .blockcontents { color: #000000; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, serif; background-color: #ffffff; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-color: #6394bd; }
  </style>
</head>

<body>
<p class="Upgrade">This page looks plain and unstyled because you're using a non-standard compliant browser. To see it in its best form, please <a href="http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/" title="The Web Standards Project's Browser Upgrade initiative">upgrade</a> to a browser that supports web standards. It's free and painless.</p>

<div id="Top"><img src="skins/white chevron/YaBBImages/white_chevron_banner.gif"></div><h1><yabb uname><yabb im><br /><yabb time></h1>
<div id="Topmenu"><yabb menu></div>
<div id="Container">
<div id="Main">
<div id="Sidebar"><yabb sblocksl></div>
<div id="Content">
     <yabb sblocksc>
     <yabb main><br />
     <yabb sblocksbc>
</div>
</div>
<div id="Bottommenu">Valid <a href="http://validator.w3.org/check/referer">XHTML 1.0 Strict</a> and <a href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer">CSS</a>.</div>
<!-- Please leave the credit intact. Thank you. -->
<div id="Bottom"><yabb copyright></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>


[haase]

Conceptually...  

I want one div to have the banner left justified, with a background image that matches the banner.  I want to have another div to be superimposed on top of the banner, containing the yabb uname, etc.  In a tables world, I'd have a column with the banner and a column with the text.  With CCS, I can have to text appear on top of the background, but ALSO on top of the image if the page is narrow.  I thought that was way cool.  Also, I plan on (just for kicks) making the banner and menu fixed (so that when you scroll to the bottom of the screen, you don't have to scroll back up to hit another button.  I realize that this is pretty trivial, but I think it's pretty neat to do.  Without frames...  

[haase]

OMG, I am such a fricken IDIOT!  I worked on this for a few hours last night.  I just looked at it now, popped a set of quotes in url("skin/etc/etc.gif") and BANGO - PRESTO - there's my Background Image.

*&$#$$#%#$%&&^$

[Mephisto_kur]

Hehe, I'm just now getting back on line to look at it, but I just spotted that, too.

Don't you love it when that happens?  Last time I got nailed with something like that was a forgotten ; a couple weeks ago.  Stared at the code on and off for at least a couple days before spotting it!  I'm a stickker for readable code because of stuff like that.  I understand the point of compressing the code like you do, but I frankly don't see the point of shaving off bits anymore considering everyone is at least on a 56k modem where it might add half a second to parse the slightly bigger file.